Comments for Cracks in the Crescent http://husseinwario.com/blog Cracking the Crescent one post at a time. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:27:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on Wycliffe/SIL’s Gamble with Integrity Grieves Me by Hussein http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/01/wycliffesils-gamble-with-integrity-grieves-me/comment-page-1/#comment-6169 Hussein Thu, 09 Feb 2012 04:27:51 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=777#comment-6169 Eileen, The only reason Wycliffe and SIL have given for not translating "Father" and "Son" literally in Muslim contexts is because they claim such translations have some "sexual connotation," which is not true. Muslims have an issue with the divinity of Jesus Christ and not how he was conceived. I am a former Muslim and I struggled with Jesus Christ's divinity and was eventually convinced He is divine. Wycliffe and SIL are trying to remove all the obstacles with these mistranslations. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, who is the Only one who can teach us all Truth, to make the Word clear to us and those who don't believe, which include Muslims. They shouldn't play the Holy Spirit. Eileen,

The only reason Wycliffe and SIL have given for not translating “Father” and “Son” literally in Muslim contexts is because they claim such translations have some “sexual connotation,” which is not true. Muslims have an issue with the divinity of Jesus Christ and not how he was conceived. I am a former Muslim and I struggled with Jesus Christ’s divinity and was eventually convinced He is divine. Wycliffe and SIL are trying to remove all the obstacles with these mistranslations. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, who is the Only one who can teach us all Truth, to make the Word clear to us and those who don’t believe, which include Muslims. They shouldn’t play the Holy Spirit.

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL’s Gamble with Integrity Grieves Me by Eileen http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/01/wycliffesils-gamble-with-integrity-grieves-me/comment-page-1/#comment-6167 Eileen Thu, 09 Feb 2012 02:03:21 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=777#comment-6167 Perhaps you do not fully understand the translation process if you keep insisting that they have "left out" the words for God and Son of God. Perhaps you do not personally know the nuances of the particular language translated, whereas the words they chose might having the meaning of God and Son of God. I personally don't get your argument. The Messiah WAS the son of God, Jesus, so it is impossible to say that by translating the word as Messiah that you think it no longer conveys the English word "Son of God" when that is exactly who the Messiah was and is. You do not achieve correct meaning when you try to use the same words Son in English and the same Son word in another language. Maybe that language says "Messiah" and it conveys the meaning "Son". Like another person answering you on here, I feel that you and some of the other people who have been quoted by BiblicalMissiology.org and others need to step back and stop trashing these great Mission organizations. They have reiterated their aims and beliefs well. They obviously know more about the language and translation process than anyone else. Perhaps you do not fully understand the translation process if you keep insisting that they have “left out” the words for God and Son of God. Perhaps you do not personally know the nuances of the particular language translated, whereas the words they chose might having the meaning of God and Son of God. I personally don’t get your argument. The Messiah WAS the son of God, Jesus, so it is impossible to say that by translating the word as Messiah that you think it no longer conveys the English word “Son of God” when that is exactly who the Messiah was and is. You do not achieve correct meaning when you try to use the same words Son in English and the same Son word in another language. Maybe that language says “Messiah” and it conveys the meaning “Son”. Like another person answering you on here, I feel that you and some of the other people who have been quoted by BiblicalMissiology.org and others need to step back and stop trashing these great Mission organizations. They have reiterated their aims and beliefs well. They obviously know more about the language and translation process than anyone else.

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by Warrick Farah http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6151 Warrick Farah Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:29:26 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6151 Hi Pierre, I also appreciate your ministry and love that you love God's inerrant Word and Muslims. We have much in common in our fellowship in Christ! I am deeply sorry if I somehow gave the impression that I was trivializing the integrity of Holy Scripture (may we never do so!). However, it is accurate to imply that I was trying to trivialize the integrity of the petition. I hope we can move on soon- there is a lot of work to do! With Love in Christ, Your Brother, Warrick Hi Pierre,

I also appreciate your ministry and love that you love God’s inerrant Word and Muslims. We have much in common in our fellowship in Christ!

I am deeply sorry if I somehow gave the impression that I was trivializing the integrity of Holy Scripture (may we never do so!). However, it is accurate to imply that I was trying to trivialize the integrity of the petition. I hope we can move on soon- there is a lot of work to do!

With Love in Christ,
Your Brother,
Warrick

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by Wycliffe, SIL & Frontiers Controversy In the Media | Biblical Missiology http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6144 Wycliffe, SIL & Frontiers Controversy In the Media | Biblical Missiology Tue, 07 Feb 2012 18:47:21 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6144 [...] Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ [...] [...] Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ [...]

]]> Comment on Jesus Prayed to the Father; to Whom Did Allah Pray? by dude http://husseinwario.com/blog/2011/05/11/jesus-prayed-to-the-father-whom-did-allah-pray-to/comment-page-1/#comment-6142 dude Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:09:37 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=578#comment-6142 how ignorant can people be? do you really think ALLAH "prayed" to someone? islam is the only religion. the quran has no errors, and it is from god, while the christian scholars agree that the "bible" is "mostly" right.. mostly...really? the quran has no scientific errors, while the bible has many. christian and non muslim scholars who actually took the time and read the quran has proven it to be right. millions of people memorized the quran, while i havent seen a chrisitan who memorized the bible. now u tell me which is more miraculous, ur bible, or the noble quran? how ignorant can people be? do you really think ALLAH “prayed” to someone?
islam is the only religion. the quran has no errors, and it is from god, while the christian scholars agree that the “bible” is “mostly” right.. mostly…really? the quran has no scientific errors, while the bible has many. christian and non muslim scholars who actually took the time and read the quran has proven it to be right. millions of people memorized the quran, while i havent seen a chrisitan who memorized the bible. now u tell me which is more miraculous, ur bible, or the noble quran?

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by Lars http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6138 Lars Tue, 07 Feb 2012 12:40:25 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6138 Hussein, I agree in general with your objections, that the phrases "Son of God" and "Father" should not be substituted with attempted equivalents when translating Scripture. However this article headline is not helping the cause of Christ, nor is it helping your credibility. Wycliffe's communication did not call efforts to hold them accountable Satanic; that is an uncharitable possible reading of the paragraph. Rather, the paragraph says that Satan "does not want God’s Word translated accurately since he has a greater influence that way." At face value, this is a true statement, one you and I would agree with. You may infer that the writer probably was thinking that Satan had stirred up this particular criticism of Wycliffe (I can imagine that thought being held by a sincere Wycliffe member), but that is very different from claiming that Wycliffe said efforts to hold them accountable are from Satan. Remember, the enemy typically tries to infiltrate all sides in a Christian disagreement, hoping to give both sides increasing reasons for resentment and anger. Taking high offense over an observation of this sort, overinterpreting what your opponent says, only serves the real enemy's purposes. Hussein,

I agree in general with your objections, that the phrases “Son of God” and “Father” should not be substituted with attempted equivalents when translating Scripture.

However this article headline is not helping the cause of Christ, nor is it helping your credibility. Wycliffe’s communication did not call efforts to hold them accountable Satanic; that is an uncharitable possible reading of the paragraph. Rather, the paragraph says that Satan “does not want God’s Word translated accurately since he has a greater influence that way.” At face value, this is a true statement, one you and I would agree with. You may infer that the writer probably was thinking that Satan had stirred up this particular criticism of Wycliffe (I can imagine that thought being held by a sincere Wycliffe member), but that is very different from claiming that Wycliffe said efforts to hold them accountable are from Satan. Remember, the enemy typically tries to infiltrate all sides in a Christian disagreement, hoping to give both sides increasing reasons for resentment and anger. Taking high offense over an observation of this sort, overinterpreting what your opponent says, only serves the real enemy’s purposes.

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by RuediG http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6131 RuediG Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:28:33 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6131 If I understand it correctly, the issue of "satanic" has to do with the manner and ease in which this conflict is carried out. No christian grace, no unity, no desire to understand. Just to accuse and destroy. As I've written elsewhere, if my atheist friends knew about this, they would be laughing all the way to the bank, so to speak. In that way, this controversy is giving Satan great pleasure! We are a house divided, and instead of seeking healing, we pursue the course about which our Lord has told us, "A house divided cannot stand." Satan's house couldn't stand that way, but neither can ours. If I understand it correctly, the issue of “satanic” has to do with the manner and ease in which this conflict is carried out. No christian grace, no unity, no desire to understand. Just to accuse and destroy. As I’ve written elsewhere, if my atheist friends knew about this, they would be laughing all the way to the bank, so to speak. In that way, this controversy is giving Satan great pleasure! We are a house divided, and instead of seeking healing, we pursue the course about which our Lord has told us, “A house divided cannot stand.” Satan’s house couldn’t stand that way, but neither can ours.

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by RuediG http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6130 RuediG Tue, 07 Feb 2012 07:21:02 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6130 SIL knew perfectly well who is who, and what they believe and write. So I'm not concerned about exposing them in that way. I'm concerned about endangering them. Endangering people by betraying their names reminds me of Bangladesh where some "christians" did that to other christians and now they have the blood of our martyred brothers and sisters on their hands. As for listening to native speakers, listen to the Qur'an and hear what it says the phrase "ibn allah" means. Maybe christianized native speakers have forgotten that. Muslims haven't. SIL knew perfectly well who is who, and what they believe and write. So I’m not concerned about exposing them in that way. I’m concerned about endangering them. Endangering people by betraying their names reminds me of Bangladesh where some “christians” did that to other christians and now they have the blood of our martyred brothers and sisters on their hands.

As for listening to native speakers, listen to the Qur’an and hear what it says the phrase “ibn allah” means. Maybe christianized native speakers have forgotten that. Muslims haven’t.

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by Pierre Rashad Houssney http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6115 Pierre Rashad Houssney Mon, 06 Feb 2012 18:20:53 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6115 Here are links to some of those open letters I referenced: Iran: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/elam_ministries_on_insider_movement.pdf Turkey: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/islamicised-Matthew-Fikret.pdf Malaysia: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/GPM-Letter.pdf Bangladesh: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/PCB-Letter.pdf Pakistan: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Pak-Bible-Society.pdf What will it take to stop these mis-translations? Who will we believe? The Western translators, or the national Christians? Here are links to some of those open letters I referenced:

Iran: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/elam_ministries_on_insider_movement.pdf

Turkey: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/islamicised-Matthew-Fikret.pdf

Malaysia: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/GPM-Letter.pdf

Bangladesh: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/PCB-Letter.pdf

Pakistan: http://biblicalmissiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Pak-Bible-Society.pdf

What will it take to stop these mis-translations? Who will we believe? The Western translators, or the national Christians?

]]> Comment on Wycliffe/SIL Call Efforts to Hold them Accountable for Accuracy in Bible Translations ‘Satanic’ by Pierre Rashad Houssney http://husseinwario.com/blog/2012/02/03/wycliffesil-calls-efforts-to-hold-them-accountable-for-accuracy-in-bible-translations-satanic/comment-page-1/#comment-6112 Pierre Rashad Houssney Mon, 06 Feb 2012 16:57:51 +0000 http://husseinwario.com/blog/?p=793#comment-6112 Warrick, How dare you trivialize the integrity of the scripture, and try to shame this dear brother Hussein into silence. Of course there are other ways to disagree, but are there other ways to stop these organizations from dragging the reputation of the Bible through the mud, right in front of the Muslims of the world? Many other attempts at communicating with Wycliffe/SIL and Frontiers have failed. Numerous resignations of their staff members have left their viewpoints unchanged. Conferences and meetings galore have done nothing. Outcry from the nationals, including open letters from Bible societies and Churches in Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and other countries have not stopped these unwanted translations from being distributed. What else is left to do? What is more important? The reputation of a reputable Christian organization? Or the reputation of the Word of God??? Do you want to talk about divisive? These translations are what is causing division. Do you want to talk about arrogance? Arrogance is when Western translators impose their ideas on the national believers (like Hussein). Wake up and listen to the voices rising up around the world. Look at the interactive map of where the petition comments are coming from, and examine your heart as you read the words of hundreds of nationals and former Muslims, dozens of former Wycliffe/SIL/Frontiers staff members, and thousands of Christians from around the world. http://biblicalmissiology.org/petition-comments-map/ Warrick,

How dare you trivialize the integrity of the scripture, and try to shame this dear brother Hussein into silence.

Of course there are other ways to disagree, but are there other ways to stop these organizations from dragging the reputation of the Bible through the mud, right in front of the Muslims of the world?

Many other attempts at communicating with Wycliffe/SIL and Frontiers have failed. Numerous resignations of their staff members have left their viewpoints unchanged. Conferences and meetings galore have done nothing. Outcry from the nationals, including open letters from Bible societies and Churches in Turkey, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and other countries have not stopped these unwanted translations from being distributed. What else is left to do?

What is more important? The reputation of a reputable Christian organization? Or the reputation of the Word of God???

Do you want to talk about divisive? These translations are what is causing division.

Do you want to talk about arrogance? Arrogance is when Western translators impose their ideas on the national believers (like Hussein).

Wake up and listen to the voices rising up around the world. Look at the interactive map of where the petition comments are coming from, and examine your heart as you read the words of hundreds of nationals and former Muslims, dozens of former Wycliffe/SIL/Frontiers staff members, and thousands of Christians from around the world.

http://biblicalmissiology.org/petition-comments-map/

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